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Xtian: Question? What differences do you find in Hinduism vs Christianity??
Sitaram: In Christianity, soul is immortal, eternal,... but has beginning in time,... created at conception.. there is a Psalm verse which referse to souls creation... in Hinduism, soul is eternal,... but has no beginning in time..... it is like a spark a ray from that light which is the Godhead... in Christianity,... the soul is eternal... but can experience "eternal life" = salvation or,.... the worm which never dies... the gnashing of teeth in Gehenna... eternal death = damnation... but only one physical birth... and one "2nd birth" (born again) ....in Hinduism... the soul already has "eternal life"... which is its problem... not its goal.... it will be born again and again into Samsara... until it irradicates all remnants of "desire"... and then it achieves "Liberation" = salvation ... In Hinduism,... liberation is described as "re-absorbtion into Brahmajyoti.... the Divine light of the Godhead"....
Xtian: reincarnation???
Sitaram: yes,... exactly,... born again and again.... until you "get it right"... and need no further rebirths... now, lets throw contemporary Judaism into the picture
Xtian: nope let's not..
Sitaram: rabbinical tradition allows the possibility for rebirth ... if there is something that is left undone....
Sitaram: why.,.... are you anti-semitic??
Sitaram: an un-biased study of comparative religion requires that all religions be compared objectively, and dispassionately
Xtian: How does a Hindu view Christ?? nope...I am not anti-Semitic....I want the topic to deal with Hinduism and Christianity ....solely.
Sitaram: but what is your ultimate goal????
Xtian: goal....go deeper?
Xtian: meaning...?
Sitaram: although I am happy to tell you my understanding of hinduism's view of Jesus
Sitaram: surely you must have in your own mind a reason why you ask me these questions.... I mean nothing more profound than that
Sitaram: it puzzles me why you would want to exclude Judaism,... since I myself often think in collective terms of "Judaeo-Christian"
Sitaram: since much is , understandably, in common with the two faiths... sharing , as they do , some scriptures in common
Sitaram: even if one were to, hypothetically, posit complete error to the Jewish tradition,... still it would be useful to study for the purpose of illuminating the directions in which it strayed...as opposed to Christianity
Xtian: you have a vast background and actual life experiences that I find fascinating...of all your travels and searching...you are now a Hindu....I wanted to understand you view of Hinduism vs Christianity.. that's all. nothing more.
Sitaram: I hope that you do not find my replies to you argumentative.... yet you seem to fear Judaism.... if I tell you that I also studied Talmud and Torah (which I did)... and that it too plays a roll in what I became... would you not want to hear my thoughts..
Sitaram: nevertheless.... if it bothers you for me to mention other Faiths.... I will respect your wishes, and confine my remarks to Christianity and Hinduism
Xtian: of course...I have no fear of Judaism....from Judaism came Christianity...in fact I believe that the Synagogue and the Church shoud stand side by side....I feel that that was the original intent... but we men got in the way.
Sitaram: of course, I must preface my comments by observing that , in some sense, it is a fiction to use the words Christian, and Hindu... since in reality there are Eastern Orthodox , Roman Catholic. Lutheran, Baptist, Calvinist... Pentacostal...on Xtian side,.. in many ways very different from one another .. and by the same token, Hinduism is really.... Vaishnave... Saivite, Shakti.... Vedanta.... Monism ... Dualism.... etc etc... in many ways different from one another...
Xtian: but in many ways the same....especially the foundation...if it is Christ.
Sitaram: but. back to your question,... how do Hindu's view Jesus...
Sitaram: In many ways, the Christ of the Roman Catholics is unrecognizable to the Greek Orthodox,.. and the Greek Orthodox will say that... flat out....
Sitaram: yet both Roman and Greek view Christ as THEANTHROPOS (GOd-Man)
Xtian: ok..
Sitaram: yet there are Protestant groups who refuse to call Christ God.... and are only comfortable to say "Son of God".... yet in Matthew in the Genealogy... Adam is also called "son of God".... so there is an obvious problem with only saying "Son of God"... In Hinduism... there is .... well... lets talk about Bhagavadgita... in which Krisna is portrayed as one of Several Avatars, or Incarnations.... God become man... In Gita,... Krishna says to Arjuna.... in every age I (God) will take human form... whenever righteousness declines..and unrighteousness prevails ."
Sitaram: so Hindus have a belief in God taking Human birth... they simply believe that it has happend more than once ... they believe that Jesus is truly a God-Man.... but they do not believe that He is the only God-Man. I hope my answer is not offending you or upsetting you... I am simply telling you what I know
Xtian: I asked the question..remeber...I am secure in my belief and faith....
Sitaram: It is interesting that in the Vedas... which are the oldest "Hindu" scriptures... there is a passage which is an almost verbatim quote of the beginning of Gospel of John (i.e. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God .. I was quite astounded when I learned this... and I learned of it several years after I became Hindu ..anyway... the Hindu perception of Gods mercy is such, that they perceive every religion... and every.. religious scripture as coming from God... so for them the Divine Supper of Religion is like a smorgassbord, or buffet ...at a buffet... there is something for everyone... if you like sweets... there is ice cream... if your a health-nut... there is tofu.... etc etc ... yet, its all FOOD
Xtian: ok....
Sitaram: so the hindu notion is that God keeps comming to mankind, in His mercy... offering all different kinds of religions.... so that each can find something that suits them
Sitaram: I will illustrate with a true story
Sitaram:
around 1902....appx... the first World Parliament of Religions was held in Chicago , a Hindu religious leader named Vivekenanda. ... came to attend that Parliament... historically.. it was the first time that a representative of Hinduism had come to the west in such a manner.
After the Parliament... Vivekenanda toured and lectured America for several years...he happend , during his travels here, to meat a Mormon preacher from Utah ... the Mormon, understandable, tried to convince Vivek. of the truth of the Mormon faith... and convert him
Vivekananda. answered saying.... I do not think I can adopt your religion... because you believe in having several wives, while I believe in the value of celibacy ...but, Vivekananda continued... why dont you travel to India and preach... and perhaps you will win some converts there
...The Mormon preacher was astounded,... and asked... How can you suggest that I go and preach to your countrymen... when you reject the doctrines of my Faith ??? Vivekananda explained....
In my country of India... there are SO MANY DIFFERENT religions... and yet there are many who do not find happiness with any of them... so if you go to India, and convert a few of such people... then those people will know the comforts and joys of Faith, and Worship, and religious activity... and they will be better off than they now are,... with nothing.
I hope I am shedding some light for you on the nature of Hindu beliefs
Xtian: some, I knew already.....Let's end this for now...we can pick this up again tomorrow...OK?
Sitaram: for example...
many devout Hindus sincerely perceived Mother Theresa as a Holy Person,.. just as they perceived Ghandi... and they would reverently visit Moth. Theresa to take DARSHAN... (which means Blessings through Beholding) ... by SEEing her,.. just as the did with Ghandi
Sitaram: okey dokey....
Sitaram: I found your questions very stimulating and interesting thank you
Xtian: We will continue this tomorrow....I took note that you are on early in the day...I'll look for you tomorrow.
Xtian: thanks for taking the time to answer...
Sitaram: see you then bye ===next day
Xtian: Hello Sitaram...
Sitaram: Hello... I saw you come on line... and was hoping you would IM
Xtian:hoping....?? it's ok for you to say..Hello..
Sitaram: do you have any new questions after yesterdays dialogue... or should I continue with some of my further thoughts re Christianity vs. Hinduism
Xtian: no....I am still waiting for my answer.
Xtian: but I do have questions along the the same topic.
Sitaram: I felt that, perhaps , it would be more sensitive and considerate on my part, if I let you contact me,.... well.... what I already said yesterday constitutes part of the answer.... or do you feel dissatisfied with what I said yesterday??
Sitaram: since what I would have said today, would only be a continuation of my line of thought from yesterday
Sitaram: of course, if part of your criteria for what constitutes an answer involves your being somehow "convinced and converted" to Hinduism.... (which is not my conception of interfaith dialogues, and is not my goal or desire)... then I am at a loss for words...
Xtian: my bad....I didn't mean that you did not answer the question...I am waiting for you to conclude. This is a dialogue...I am not here for conversion either way..just an open discussion for my benefit.
Sitaram: oh, good, im glad... it is very interesting for people of all Faiths to understand the beliefs of others...
Xtian: my pique of interest. Again you have studied both Hinduism and Christianity...I wanted to know your view...
Sitaram: therefore... I will continue with an illustrative story about the teacher of Vivekenanda,... Ramakrishna... as I explained yesterday, there is great variety of belief both in "Christianity" and in "Hinduism"... as well as e.g. Islam (i.e. the Sufis)
Sitaram: one day a member of the Bramho Samaj, approached Ramakrishna (circa 1870) and asked.. "Do you believe that God is WITH FORM (SAGUNA) or FORMLESS (NIRGUNA)???" .. since the Bramho Samaj "denomination", concentrated, much like the Jews , on a concept of God who has no form.... invisible.... (No man hath seen the Father at any time) ... and Ramakrishna answered : .."He is both WITH FORM,.. and FORMLESS,... and transcends all FORM and FORMLESSNESS.... "
Xtian: ok..
Sitaram: the point I am trying to illustrate is, that amongst sects or denominations.... there are tendencies to "lean" to one extreme or another... of the spectrum... ... but modern day Hinduism has sort of settled on the concept that,... if God is TRULY OMNIPOTENT... then there is nothing to stop Him from being ALL THINGS (even though they might seem contradictory to our "logical" human reason)
Sitaram: so , for the Hindu.... the Omnipotence of God (combined with a concept of Mercy)... means that each and every religion is true.... Islam , Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism... ZOroastrian etc ... which also gets back to the concept yesterday of the "divine smorgassbord"... different things, but all FOOD.
Sitaram: I will quote, to illustrate, from a contemporary author on Comparative world religion, Ninian Smart... who has also producted documentaries on BBC and PBS ... Ninian Smart, in one of his textbooks on comp.theo., says,.... "If you went into a South American jungle,... and saw natives singing and dancing... it would be most certaily very different from Bach, or a Minuet... but you would instantly recognize it as MUSIC ."
Xtian: true..
Sitaram: now, I was engaged in a similar discussion, on a Delta flight last year, with a very devout Christian (Evangelical) from Alabama... and he raised a fasinating question to me....
Xtian: what was it?
Sitaram: I had explained to him that, in Hindu belief, Jesus is as much an Incarnation (or avatar) of God, as is Ram, or Krishna, or Budda... so he asked me....
Sitaram: Well, If you believe that Jesus is God,... then certainly you would agree that God cannot lie... (spelling?) tell a falsehood..,,, and Jesus says "no man shall come to the Father but by Me ... and "By no other name shall one be saved".... etc etc .... so the fascinating question he raised is ...."Can God tell a falsehood?"
Xtian: what was your answer?
Sitaram: obviously, if I say that God cannot lie...." and if I agree that Jesus is God,... well ... you see what follows....
Xtian: stands to reason....
Sitaram: well,... I did have to study a bit... since I am not the worlds expert on anything, let alone theology .. but I searched the Strong's exhaustive concordance... for any hint of God deceiving.... and found only one very interesting example
Xtian: which was? in the Old testament,... somewhere in Kings or Samuel,... its not important.. one can always locate it.... It is written in O.T. that there was a problem with many false prophets arising to deceive the people and, it is written that God sent FALSE dreams to the prophets,... so that when they prophesied from the false dreams .... Of course,... their prophesies would not come to pass,... and they would be discovered in the eyes of the people as false prophets...
Xtian: ok....
Sitaram:
consider the mid-wives Shiphrah and Puah.. Pharaoh had commanded them to slay the first born males,... but they disobeyed, and when Pharaoah questioned them... they lied,... saying " The Hebrew women are too lively, and give birth before we can arrive... and scripture indicates that God saw to it that things went well with those midwives... because of their "pious" deception
Xtian: you know that I will search these....right?
Xtian: go on..
Sitaram: which is sort of reminiscent of the old problem of morality... "if your hiding Jews in the basement, and Nazis come and ask 'are you hiding any jews"... do you lie or tell the truth
a buddhism monk vowed not to lie... and also not to harm animal life... so one day in the forrest, a rabbit ran by him... and then the hunters came and asked the monk "did you see which way the rabbit went?"
Sitaram: you suspect that I am lying to deceive you????
Sitaram: why would I do that, since I have no vested interest in what conclusions you draw from this discourse...
Xtian: don't stray....does God lie??? No....not deception...I'd like to read these accounts for myself...that's all.
Sitaram: from the Hindu point of view, to say that God cannot deceive, is to limit His Omnipotence,... it is related to the Good/evil problem.. how can a Good God create a world in which there is evil so , the Hindu answer is that God is a Good beyond good and evil... and a Truth beyond truth and falsehood....but to fully appreciate this belief,... it is necessary for you to understand many other scriptures and religions....
(by the way.... it is similar problem to the puzzle of middle ages,.. can God create an obstacle which He cannot overcome ?)
Xtian: God cannot fail.
Xtian: With God all things are possible.
Sitaram: so... If we look at the Koran,...for example... and visit a mosque... you will see people praying with rosarys of 99 beads ...the 99 beads represent the 99 "names" of God which appear in the Koran....
Xtian: ok
Sitaram: some of these "names" are Merciful... Just.... Protector..... well.... one of those names is Deceiver
Sitaram: and in Islamic doctrine.... Allah desires that you "surrender" (the meaning of Islam) to Him... but if you do not,... He (as Deceiver).... plunges you even deeper into your error and deception. and your condemnation increases Now, we must look and one of the most ancient continuously practiced religions, the Jain religion ..Jains were already long established by the time Sidhartha Gautama the historical Budda was born (circa 450 B.C)
Xtian: a different notion of God's use of deception, Paul touches on that in Romans..Chapt. 1...about God giving the lost over to a reprobate mind...
Sitaram: one of their....
Sitaram: exactly EXACTLY VERY GOOD
Sitaram: I WAS thinking of that aspect of Christianity...
Sitaram: its hard to know which issue to mention next... but that is certainly intimately related...
Sitaram: anyway, a fundamental term in Jain theology is ANEKANTAVAD,... which loosly translated means "NO ONE SINGLE VIEWPOINT"
Sitaram: what Anekantavada means in a nutshell is that every attempt at verbalization of the Truth... is inadequate, falls short,... and is only a partial verbalization of the truth...
Sitaram: in the ninth century A.D. a Hindu named Shankaracharya wrote a prayer which starts "Oh Thou, from Whom all words recoil... "
Sitaram: so this is related to Apophatic or Negative Theology... with its origins in the writings of Dionysius the Areopagite
Sitaram: namely, that we cannot say what God IS,... but only say what He is NOT....
Sitaram: can you hold on for a moment, be right back
Xtian: ok
Sitaram: in Hinduism,.. an important term is Maya or Illusion... and it is considered as a protection from God.. namely that because of Maya, we do not perceive the true reality of ourselves and the world... for we would not be spiritually prepared or "strong " enough to endure such a vision it is similar to God and Moses, where God says,... I shall pass by you, but you shall not see my Face... I will cover you with My hand,... and you shall see My Back as I depart
Xtian: ok
Sitaram: it is also helpful in Old/New testament to look at two other things... one is in Isaiah, the well known passage "As high as the heavens are from the earth,... so high are My ways from your ways,... My thoughs from your thoughts and in the New testament,... I think epistles..."That which has been secret from the ages is now made known..... " ... in a sense this constitutes what is called a "lie of omission"
Sitaram: Isaiah passage,... since God is Infinite, and Omniscient, and Omnipresent,... therefore the finite mind of man cannot possibly understand anything from God EXCEPT FALSEHOODS... i.e. approximations of the Divine Reality ...it is not a wicked, malevolent lie,... but much like the Parent who tells the very small child,... dont cross the street or the boogie man will get you... but the older child,.. THe policeman will arrest you... but the Adolsecent... you will be struck and injured ..
Sitaram: New testament quote concerning "that which has been secret from the ages..." ... well think about the "lie of omission"... only telling a partial truth or "part" of the truth ... infact Jewish theologians like Maimonides... struggle to show that every Anthropomorphic reference to God,... such as the Finger of God, the Footstool... the Face... is really figurative and metaphorical.. to communicate with finite beings
Sitaram: for example, it is written in (i think Samuel)... God says that He "regrets" having made Saul King... but if God is eternal, and unchanging, and outside of time.. then what can it mean to say He regrets stop and think.... eve did not exist when God told adam not to eat the apple... but when eve talked to the serpent...she repeated what Adam must have told her (the first Prophecy)..but she added the words "nor even touch it"
Xtian: ok...Sitaram...enough for today. I have several questions for you....that I would like to ask, concerning Hinduism....
Sitaram: but if God is eternal, and unchanging, and outside of time.. then what can it mean to say He regrets
Sitaram: ok === +++
Sitaram: any more questions for me ??
Xtian: sure....I have a few...
Sitaram: im ready if you are
Xtian: Ok..the only thing that really exist and has meaning is the brahmanatman, which is beyond this world...is that correct?? yes or no willl suffice...
Sitaram: its not as simple as yes, or no
Sitaram: God is a Trinity, correct? a simple yes or no with suffice for example
Xtian: do you believe in the brahmanatan??
Xtian: yes God is a triune God.
Sitaram: but... seven ecumenical councils didnt suceed in ironing out the details
Xtian: I am not concerned with seven councils who can' t make up it's minds.....salvation is personal....and is not determined by a council of men.
Sitaram: but you mention "personal"...
Xtian: so if I believe in a Triune God....what council is there to influence me differently..
Sitaram: sorry for delay... but highschool student is asking for help on hindu paper...
Xtian: help him out..
Sitaram: you mention personal....my own "personal " devotion... doesnt work like a "do you believe...yes/or no will suffice" kind of way
Sitaram: there off line now
Xtian: ok....
Xtian: ok...what is your view of brahmanatman?
Sitaram: so.... anyway... hmmm... how can I explain.... lets look at Plato and Aristotle... for a moment.... and logical syllogistic reasoning...
Sitaram: perhaps this will be helpful, for you to understand where I am coming from..
Sitaram: and this also relates to the classic model of a mathematical system, like Euclidean geometry....
Sitaram: one starts with axioms, postulates.. definitions... which are not proven... because then proofs would have things which required proofs.. and there would be an infinite regression
Xtian: hold it Doc....no need to go there. I am not interested. I asked a question....a simplified answer woiuld do....I do have the time...for an in depth analysis....
Sitaram: so even a Geometry, starts with axioms... definitions... postulates.... accepted on FAITH.. if you will. ... or as APRIORI self-evident...
Xtian: the bottom line....Who is Jesus...and what if anything does he mean to you??
Sitaram: but you are assuming that I think as you think... which is not true.... so you are asking me for something which... makes no sense in the context... ok ...hold on... who is Jesus
Sitaram: I find it easier to respond to that.. then to the first question
Sitaram: ok... Jesus is God-Man.... come to a certain people at a certain time...(and those people have a certain nature... and need a certain type of religion)... but Jesus is non different from Ram and Krsna who are also God-man... come to a certain people at a certain time
Sitaram: and.... as I mentioned before (the dialogue with the christian on the delta flight)...
Sitaram: a lot hinges on whether one accepts or rejects the notion that God can lie (which sounds harsh... illusion Maya... sounds nicer)...
Sitaram: but... if you understand how I view the work of Kurt Godel... in mathematical axiomatic systems....
Sitaram: then you would better understand what I believe....
Xtian: I am not assuming that you thinks as I do....my questions are dealing solely with Hinduism and you insist on a comparative discusssion....which I am not ready for....I would like to get a grip on Hinduism before I move on. But you don't understand that....one has to learn the alphabet before he can write the language....you must have a foundation.
Xtian: and my questions are for a foundation of our discussions....
Sitaram: but... if you really want to understand Hinduism,... its history, development... doctrinal diversity.... (and by the way... I find ENORMOUS doctrinal diversity in Christian denominations...
Sitaram: then, you should really get a book like "Survey of Hinduism" by Klaus Klostermeier (SUNY press
Xtian: just like I find the inconsistancy..of Hinduism..
Sitaram: because... my poor old fingers cant type enough in Instant Message to convey to you such a foundation
Sitaram: let me put it this way...
Sitaram: and please... no offence...but...
Sitaram: your most recent statement...
Sitaram: "i find an inconsistency in Hinduism..."
Sitaram: to be perfectly candid... it reveals to me that you have a, vested interest, a hidden agenda (which is very understandable for a Christian...
Sitaram: you start out with the conviction "there is an inconsistancy"
Sitaram: and then you look for one or two... facts ... to prove the inconsistency...
Sitaram: but you are already convinced of this inconsistency... before you have really studied Hinduism....
Xtian: yes..I find that from what I have read... I have not stated those facts...as such
Sitaram: but... of course... you MUST find an inconsistency...
Sitaram: or your own beliefs, and faith... are threatened
Xtian: not looking for one...niether do I have an hidden agenda...
Sitaram: you see... very simply stated... I can freely acknowledge the truth of Christianity... and my own Hindu faith is in no way compromised or affected
Xtian: I believe what I believe..you or anyone else can change that...
Sitaram: but if you were to , for even the briefest moment.... concede the "truth of Hinduism" you would become an apostate,... an idolator... in your own eyes....
Sitaram: yes... but... in a way... you are not being honest with me.. or with yourself....
Xtian: can't change that....I am not threatened by what you believe in...honestly....I have read about world religions...and I wanted to discuss with you Hinduism...that's all. not to change your beliefs....because as you stated
Sitaram: also,... if most christians are honest... they will admit that they have a "vested interest" in converting non-christians... whereas
Sitaram: many Hindus would actually feel upset... if they seriously disturbed or disuaded another on their spiritual path....
Xtian: you have walked a long road in search of your beliefs..who am I to tell you that you are all wrong....I have no hidden agenda...and I am secure in MY Lord ..Jesus Christ.
Sitaram: there is a Jain theological term, Anekantevada, ... which means "no one correct point of view"... that every attempt at verbalization of the Truth, is but a partial truth.. Anekantavada... goes hand in hand,... in a way with Kurt Godel... the mathemetician... and a lot of ways of thinking that have come out of modern quantum physics.... to paint a picture that... there is not a one aristotelian truth...syllogistically arrived at...as Aquinas or Descarte invisioned
Sitaram: just as Euclidean Geometry, Hyperbolic Geometry, and Ellliptical Geometry,... are mutually contradictory... and yet coexist.. and all adequately describe space... within the limitation of accuracy of measuring instruments...
Sitaram: just as light itself is a self-contradictory thing which behaves as waves and as quanta or particles....
Sitaram: for the Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh... and others... dogmatic theological systems... are no different than geometrical axiomatic systems.... they contradict one another... they are internally consistent in the context of their own assumptions... and they co-exist with one another
Sitaram: a very wise person once explained to me (when I was 25,... and firmly convinced that Greek Orthodox Old-Calendarist Christianity was the One true faith... and that protestants and catholics were demonicly deluded)... this wise person explained... in essence... that to actually understand a religion... (if for example one claims an interest in understanding Hinduism).... one must actually BECOME a devout Hindu...... or Moslem (if we are talking Islam).... but doesnt that make a strange kind of sense....
Sitaram: perhaps you have heard of the Sufi religion... Sufis consider themselves Moslems in every sense of the word... but Orthodox (non-sufi) moslems consider them heretics... and blasphemers....
Sitaram: .... the basic Orthodox moslem objection is that the Sufi seeks to realize a complete union with Allah... while still in this life,.. in this human body...
Sitaram: once... a Sufi saint.... who had realized such a union, and exclaimed out-loud "I AM ALLAH".... and was condemned to death by the Orthodox moslems... for blasphemy... but as he was led to the gallows .. he calmly said to his executioners... "If I had had your experiences... I would have no other alternative than to execute a person such as myself... but... if you had had my experiences... you would have no other alternative than to exclaim 'I AM ALLAH'
Sitaram: so, you can see, even in this Sufi martyrs words... something of the Kurt Godel type of... finite axiomatic system co-existance ...
Sitaram: .. to his executioners... "If I had had your experiences... I would have no other alternative than to execute a person such as myself... but... if you had had my experiences... you would have no other alternative than to exclaim 'I AM ALLAH'
Sitaram: so, you can see, even in this Sufi martyrs words... something of the Kurt Godel type of... finite axiomatic system co-existance
Xtian: I see.
Sitaram: I am not trying to "weasle out" of giving the explanation you seek
Xtian: Just go on...we'll get there eventually...
Sitaram: I am trying to help you understand that... from MY perspective.... you are asking ... shall we say "aristotelian linear syllogistic questions" in the spirit of A implies B, B implies C, C implies D...... all the while.. heading towards a Q.E.D. (quod erat demonstrandum).. that which was to be demonstraed has been proved...
Sitaram: ... but all the while... keeping a sharp eye out for a contradictions... which would result in Reduction Ad Absurdum
Sitaram: ... these are.. ways of thinking of Aristotle... Aquinas... Descarte....
Sitaram: but they are inadequate for the kind of theological inquiry that goes on in "eastern circles" today...
Xtian: but you said that thinking as such can and do co-exsist... correct??
Sitaram: just as Newtons mechanics was fine for canon ball trajectories... but is inadequate for sub-atomic... or intergalactic phenomena
Sitaram: I am fearful that when you use the word "correct"... you are back in the world of Aristotelian syllogisms
Sitaram: but... go ahead and just make your point....
Xtian: never been there...to that world....no point....just trying to keep up with you...
Sitaram: ( I hope you DO Realize that,... as I talk to you... i never once... I dont believe... feel the need to say to you "do you agree to this..." or "do you believe that"... or "you earlier asserted this about that"..... ARE YOU AWARE OF THIS SUBTLE DIFFERENCE IN OUR "STYLES"???? OF COMMUNICATION)
Sitaram: I am not trying to hurt your feelings, or be confrontational
Xtian: yes and your point being??
Sitaram: but if you stand back, and look at that big difference in YOUR STYLE, verses MY STYLE... you will begin to realize something very astounding
Xtian: and that is...??
Sitaram: well.... my point is that... you are compelled to talk in such a fashion.... because you are totally immersed in that Aristotelian Linear Syllogistic form of reasoning
Sitaram: so you are highly dependent on statements like.... "do you believe in Brahman-yada-yada-yada... yes, or no"
Sitaram: because it provides the "hooks and latches" for you to construct your "A implies B, B implies C,....etc"
Sitaram: whereas.. the manner in which I am thinking,... talking... is in no way dependant upon your statements, your agreement, your denial,....
Sitaram: can you see what I am saying.... does it seem accurate to you???
Xtian: very.....
Sitaram: does it in some way, open your eyes to something which you were not conscious of ???
Xtian: yes...
Sitaram: I mean regarding different ways of thinking...talking....
Xtian: oh yes...
Sitaram: thats good,... you are then in a better position to begin to understand why different people embrace different paths... even though they might be intimately familiar with lets say Koran, or New Testament, or Book of Mormon
Sitaram: and,... without haveing to embrace it... you are in a better position to understand the Hindu,Buddhist,Sikh outlook on other Denominations , Creeds, Paths
Sitaram: as you perhaps well know... the great effort of Einstein, which he never succeded in , was a Unified Field Theory.. to harmonize the gravity, electromagnet,etc forces to one... and people are still trying...
Sitaram: compare this to the attempt of Bert. Russel and Alfred North Whitehead to unify all mathematics with the Principial Mathematica... which failed.. and Kurt Godel proved why it must fail....inherent in the nature of all axiomatic systems
Xtian: speaking of that...what is your take on the Great Pyramid ...Cheops...??? and it's mathematical wonders??
Sitaram: and then,... compare the physisysts and the mathematicians attempts at UNIFYING... with the attempts of "Christianity" for 2000 years,... and ecumenical movement in this century.. to achieve unity
Sitaram: and... I think you will find some amazing analogies in these three attempts at "achieving unity" ...
Sitaram: and... I think you will find some amazing analogies in these three attempts at "achieving unity"
Sitaram: im really not too familiar with Cheops.. or pyramids... except that they have found that the ancients did some amazing things with mathematics... and with moving stones and precision measurement and cutting with primative tools
Xtian: right....
Sitaram: on the one hand... I personally suspect that... things like Stephen Hawkins theories on Black Holes... well it seems likely to me that inside a black hole.. there is another BIG bang going on.... another Universe... other life forms with souls.... other Bhagavadgitas and Gospels being written... other manger scenes.. other incarnations, Buddhas awakening Hocma (Hebrew Wisdom)... is SHE... and was with God (HE) in the beginning... helping in creation, (Shakti)... read the writings of King Solomon ;)
Sitaram: ... but .. although I suspect that something like that is the case... is true.... my own personal faith does not hinge on the truth or falsehood of those "black hole" notions
Xtian: Mormons believe along the same lines...
Sitaram: yes.... I was astounded when I conversed with a mormon... and discovered the tremendous similarities between Mormon faith and Hindu faith
Xtian: Sitaram I need to make a few phone calls...I'll be back within the hour...
Sitaram: of course... this is fun...
Sitaram: I am really learning a lot myself
Sitaram: being "forced" to verbalize ... explain... what I think
Xtian: good ...I'll be back..
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